WCME 073: “How do you know that?” with Jack Killen

Today’s guest, with whom we’ll be chillin’
Brings a method of knowledge distillin’:
To cleave with an axe
The opinions from facts,
So please welcome Dr. Jack Killen!

  • “Science is one way of knowing.” – Jack Killen
  • VUCA: Volatile, Uncertain, Complex, Ambiguous (Dan Siegel)
  • we don’t have to choose between science and spirituality – we can have our cake and eat it too
  • what it means to bring a more scientific mindset into our study of, and work with the Enneagram
  • how this can benefit the Enneagram field of study in general
  • how this can benefit me, the listener, in my work with the Enneagram. Why not just ignore everything you’re saying and get back to doing what I know works?

Jack Killen, MD recently retired from a 33 year career in biomedical research at the National Institutes of Health. He has been an avid student of the Enneagram for 20 years, and is certified as an Enneagram teacher and Coach by Enneagram Studies in the Narrative Tradition, and The Enneagram in Business. He has particular interests in the intersections of science, the Enneagram, and wisdom tradition teachings and practices. He and colleagues, Dan Siegel, David Daniels, Denise Daniels, Laura Baker, and Kristin Arthur, collaborate in an ongoing project which seeks to look at the Enneagram from a scientific perspective. He teaches Enneagram workshops and collaborates with his husband, Fred Boykin, in work with individuals and couples. He is a professional member of the International Enneagram Association, and a member and past president of the Enneagram Association in the Narrative Tradition.

If you’d like to read more about Jack’s work, you can read some articles he and his colleagues have written herehere, and here.

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And if you’d like to discover how the Enneagram could help YOU, sign up for an Enneagram Exploration! The Enneagram Exploration is your opportunity to talk with me one-on-one about how the Enneagram can help you live a wild, crazy, meaningful life. If that piques your curiosity, you can find out more at EnneagramPodcast.com.

We’re here every other Wednesday morning, so we’ll see you next time!

Feel clear and confident about your direction in life!


Do you wish you could follow your heart, but it seems impossible? I can help you find the clarity and courage you need.

In other words, I can help you find your path.